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Nura and Carolyn discussed the ins and outs of supporting a few staff members and managing a few Macs, whether in a Microsoft 365 or Google Workspace environment.
The days of leaving your Mac users to manage their own devices are long gone – current cybersecurity risks require full management of ALL your end users. You might try to get all your staff on the same laptops, but Mac users really love their Macs and are reluctant to give them up. How can you best ensure their device is secure while letting them use the machine that makes them the most productive?
There are a lot of advantages to allowing Mac users to keep their Macs. It increases the pool of qualified talent you can hire, and can make your office more able to recover from cyber attacks by having a variety of laptops running different systems even if they are united on Microsoft or Google platforms.
Nura recommends starting with policy – even if you are only managing a few Macs, you are going to want to include those users in your Acceptable Use Policies. You’ll also want to document the expectations on your IT team or IT provider for their level of Mac support.
Second, do not leave your Mac users behind in terms of IT support. If you allow them, support them. If you are hiring for an internal IT team, ensure the ability to support Macs. And if you are hiring outsourced IT, be thorough in questioning their support agreement to manage a few Macs.
Finally, Nura gave us some ideas in three issues:
Nura is a Senior Consultant at Community IT. In that role, he proactively oversees technology infrastructure for select clients, providing strategic IT advice, recommending IT solutions and solution design to meet business objectives, and then overseeing solution implementations. Nura provides leadership and guidance for strategic planning and solutions architecting with clients who have sophisticated technical and business requirements. He gathers core business, technical and IT service management requirements through a variety of activities including key stakeholder interviews, document review and technical assessments.
Nura started his career at Community IT as a Network Administrator. In 2012, he was promoted to Network Engineer and assumed a supervisory role in IT service operations, then became an IT Business Manager, where he has guided some of our largest clients through complex implementation of effective technology investments and utilizing efficient IT services in direct support of their missions. He has a lot of experience in making IT governance work for your nonprofit.
Prior to joining Community IT Innovators, Nura served as a member of the technical support team at George Washington University and held a Network Specialist role at the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) Parliament in Abuja, Nigeria. Nura holds a Bachelor of Science in Computer Engineering and Master of Science in Electrical Engineering, both from George Washington University.
Carolyn Woodard: Welcome everyone to the Community IT Innovators Podcast. My name is Carolyn Woodard, and I am the Outreach Director for Community IT. And I’m very happy to welcome my friend Nura to the podcast today to answer some of my questions about when you have one or two people in your office who are using Macs and no one else is.
So Nura, would you like to introduce yourself?
Nura Aboki: Hi, my name is Nuradeen Aboki. I’m a Senior Consultant at Community IT. I’ve been working at Community IT for about 15 years, helping clients with IT management planning, IT roadmapping, sometimes occasional support. It’s been really an interesting journey. I’ve learned so much and I’m really happy to be here to share what we’ve learned over the years.
Carolyn Woodard: Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us, Nura.
My first question is, if you have an organization coming in like a new client, and they are all in Windows, but maybe one person wants a Mac, or I think sometimes it happens that it’s an organization that’s all on Windows machines, but they hire someone new who really loves Macs and wants to work on their Mac. Is that something that we would discourage?
Could we say to that organization, really tell your staff member they have to use Windows, or how do we handle that situation?
Nura Aboki: Integrating Mac computers into a predominantly Windows environment can be managed, but it requires careful consideration.
The first thought or question will be policy on device preference. Does the organization have a policy? We want to go back to that document and see what does it say, if it exists.
However, it’s not inherently discouraged to allow Mac devices, but it depends on the organization’s ability and IT policies. Balancing user preference with organizational standards is key. That user or employee may be a top performer, and having a Mac really would support that individual.
Fundamentally, that IT policy is where we want to start looking. Several organizations don’t actually have an established policy for device preference. So that could be something to start considering, because they have several advantages in having a policy around the type of device.
Another consideration is the support structure. Having a single Mac in a Windows environment or a few Macs, how are we going to support this? Changing your support can be a struggle sometimes, especially if the IT support team is predominantly Windows experts.
Adapting the IT support to include Mac devices can be beneficial, and this will foster a more inclusive environment. However, if you’re asking a staff member to switch to a Windows device, it might be simpler initially, but could impact employees’ satisfaction and productivity.
Carolyn Woodard: I have heard it said that it’s easier to change your support than to change the staff person.
And the other way, too, I think you’d also have problems with changing people who are very, very used to a Windows laptop over to suddenly say “everyone’s going to use Macs.” So I don’t mean to cast dispersions on the Mac users out there, but I feel like it does happen more often that you have one or two people that really love their Macs and want to be able to use them.
Thank you for saying that about the policies, because I feel like 15, 20 years ago, it might have been something where your policy was just, “you can use your Mac, but you’re on your own. We’re not going to support it.” And I think with the changes in cybersecurity particularly, that’s not really an option.
Nura Aboki: Yeah, that’s right. I mean, policy is really top of mind for a lot of IT leaders, because it drives everything else that comes along the way at the enterprise or the organization.
Carolyn Woodard: Are there some roles where people really do prefer Macs, that they’re better at certain roles in your experience?
Nura Aboki: Yes. Certainly, the popular ones are the graphic designers, in a communication department or even a marketing department, may prefer to use a Mac, because a Mac, traditionally has come with powerful applications and the hardware itself has powerful processing that can allow for graphic designers to render videos and images faster and turn around project more quickly.
Video editing is quite popular these days with YouTube and the likes of social media. There are video applications that come with the Macintosh operating system, or even applications that were previously windows only, that have been created to support the Macintosh operating system. So we are seeing video editors tend to use these Apple devices.
Music producers are one we’ve seen. Macs are flashy devices, but at the same time, they are powerful and so easy for those creative people with creative talent to use.
You can even look at software developers. There are especially those that are developing applications for the mobile Apple iOS. So whether it’s Apple iOS or it could be an iPhone or iPad, if you are developing an app, using an Apple device or laptop or desktop would be sufficient. Actually, it could yield better results than using a non-Apple device.
Carolyn Woodard: Yeah, I think also probably people in those disciplines also have come up using Macs because they were easier when they were a student of graphic design or that sort of thing.
And then for other people too, I think one of the biggest things is just if you’re used to using it, you just get very used to using it. And when I switch also, it’s like two different halves of your brain. They do the same thing, but in the reverse order in some cases. If you’re going to switch, it takes a while to switch. And I think it really does hit your productivity.
Nura Aboki: Yeah, I absolutely agree on user experience. Once you are familiar with it, some of us have already built an ecosystem, you know, seamless integration with Apple devices. So you find that that Apple graphic designer using an Apple device may also have an iPad where they need to evaluate whatever they rendered on an iPad or maybe an iPhone. That seamless integration also is unique to the Apple devices. And some employees prefer to continue using the Apple and Mac devices.
Carolyn Woodard: That’s a good segue into my next question, which is that it is not always that seamless between a Mac and a Windows based device. I feel like it’s gotten a lot better in the last five years or so, from how it was maybe 15 years ago. Sometimes you couldn’t open a file that someone had shared with you, or it would open, but it was all reformatted. There were lots of issues between the two systems. But that doesn’t seem to be such a problem anymore.
Can you talk a little bit about if you are in a Microsoft 365 environment and you’re supporting a few Macs in that office, are there best practices for that support?
Nura Aboki: Office 365 is a cloud-based software as a service solution. And being cloud-based, it basically automatically allows you to access those services using a web browser. Whether you’re on a Mac or a Windows device, as long as you have a web browser, the default web browser for Mac is Safari. You can access Microsoft 365 without having to download and install any application on your Mac. So that compatibility with MacOS is there.
All Microsoft 365 applications are compatible with MacOS. In terms of security, the MacOS utilizes built-in security features alongside Microsoft security tools. There’s collaboration between Apple and Microsoft to make this application available on their hardware.
It also allows for Microsoft to provide regular updates as Apple periodically releases major upgrades to their Macintosh operating system. Likewise, Microsoft collaborates with Apple to ensure that there’s continuity of support for their Microsoft 365 application. So this collaboration that we’ve seen is allowing Apple users not to be left behind, and allows for Apple users to seamlessly collaborate with Windows users because they are seeing the same applications, regardless of which device that they use.
Carolyn Woodard: So if you are a manager or chief operations officer or someone who is in charge of IT at your nonprofit, are there headaches with allowing a few people to use Macs? What are the challenges?
Nura Aboki: I would say from a support standpoint primarily, is your IT support team equipped with the necessary tools to make sure that the few Macs are not left behind. So they get regular updates when they need to. The end users get support if they are maybe working from home. There’s a way to remote into, to connect remotely, to provide remote assistance. Those Macs have endpoint protection on them.
Those are the kind of questions that CIOs or leaders have to look at. The few Macs that we have are still part of our network. We need to find a way to integrate it into our network.
Some challenges that we’ve seen are troubleshooting Macs if we are predominantly Windows. Sometimes we forget the Macs. The Macs can be a conduit for attacks or for even providing network issues. So it’s important to make sure you consider all the devices, whether they have all the Windows or whatever mixed device that you have, including the Macs as well. Look at how you can support them and integrate them onto your network.
Carolyn Woodard: That’s interesting that you said the help desk and the staff support. So not at Community IT, but at a previous employer, it fairly often happened that if I called the tech support line and they were starting to help me, they would say, “well, do you see this on your screen? Or do you click on this piece?” And I would say, “oh, I don’t see that.” And then they would say, “oh, that’s right, you’re on a Mac.”
So it does look slightly different. And being able to support those staff is important.
Nura Aboki: Yeah. And not all IT personnel may have expertise in Mac systems. But being in IT, IT staff members can be trained to provide basic support for general staff with some training obviously involved. You may not necessarily need to have a Mac specialist on your team. But if you have a complex network or a large deployment of Macs, if the Macs are the overwhelming majority, then there’s power and strategy in investing and getting Mac specialists involved to look at how to best optimize the support of the several Macs that you have in your environment.
But if there are a few of them, as we are discussing right now in a Windows environment, then those few, the current IT team can have one or two people trained specifically to learn the basic end user support needs and to be trained as such.
Carolyn Woodard: Are there benefits or advantages to having a few Macs in your office? Obviously, there’s the benefit of that staff member using the tool that they’re more proficient on.
But are there other benefits as well? I know Macs are less susceptible to some cyber attacks.
Nura Aboki: Yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. In the past, we would think “Macs have full protection. They are never going to be hacked. They are never going to be attacked.” But that is not the reality.
Indeed, there are more Windows devices out of hand. There are more threats to Windows devices than there are to Macs. But Macs can be vulnerable as well.
So certainly, having Macs may reduce your attack surface for cybersecurity threats or attacks.
Having a diverse set of solutions is also a benefit, I think. A different operating system can offer unique solutions for specific tasks.
So there are some use cases where it’s best to just use a Mac to get things done.
For innovation, some entrepreneurs or non-profit organizations consider using a Mac or supporting Macs. That encourages innovation and a flexible work environment where we’re not going to be pushing hard for people to just use Windows devices.
Instead we say “hey, you’re creative, you’re adding value. We want to boost your morale and productivity. We want you to innovate. Don’t worry about the device. Having a Mac, if you’re comfortable with it, will help support it. Here’s one that you should use.”
Carolyn Woodard: I think there is an opposite case. We talked earlier about a lot of marketing departments use a lot of Macs, and I think it can be a benefit to see what something is going to look like on a Mac and on a Windows. The formatting may be slightly different in your email or your signature block or something like that. So it can be good to have the options, knowing that some of your clients or customers or people on your email list are going to be on Macs and they’re going to see it in this different environment.
Nura Aboki: Exactly. I do agree 100% with that.
From an IT support standpoint, your IT support team also, as you train them to learn some basic Mac skills, having one or two few Macs available to them, helps them also familiarize themselves with the different upgrades and features available so they can experience what the end user is likely to experience and troubleshoot it more effectively.
Carolyn Woodard: So we’ve talked a lot about the Microsoft 365 environment. A lot of nonprofits use Google Workspace. Are there any particular challenges to using one or two Macs in your office if you’re using Google Workspace as your platform?
Nura Aboki: So I would say Google Workspace is fully compatible with Macs. It’s a cloud-based suite, any web browser.
There are a few things that Google encourages users to do. If you have a Mac, you may know the default browser is Safari, but Google Workspace integrates seamlessly with Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge. In fact, they would really say, “use Google Chrome if you want the best experience.”
One example is if you want to access your files offline. If you have your files stored on Google Drive, and maybe you don’t have the Google Drive for desktop installed on your Mac. For all your files, you go to a web browser page, drive.google.com, to access your files, but then you need to travel. You can’t have offline access if you use Safari. You have to use Google Chrome with an extension there, that allows you for offline access. Or you can use a Microsoft Edge on a Mac as well, which will give you that access to the extension.
Another nice feature that Google Chrome has is the creation of multiple profiles. Some of us in the nonprofit space, we may be working for multiple non-profit organizations, so under different domains. Being able to use the same browser, but with different switching between different profiles is a time-saver. That profile could preserve your custom settings, your bookmarks.
If you are a fan of using the Google Password Manager Autofill, which I personally prefer not to put my passwords in there, but you would have similar synchronization of those, and the profiles are available to you as long as you can switch between them when you are using the Google Chrome browser. So that’s one kind of challenge that the Mac operating system doesn’t give you through Safari. If you need to have the additional integration with Google workspace, you need to get either Google Chrome or Microsoft Edge.
Those are the limitations to me.
Carolyn Woodard: I think another thing that comes up in my family at least, is that with Macs, the Keychain password manager is also built into and is prompted in Safari and apps. And so if you are using that, but then you’re on a Google Chrome browser, that it’s also prompting you to save your passwords in two different places, that can get confusing.
Nura Aboki: Yes, that can be confusing. In terms of personal preference, I use a Mac, and I have a different password manager for work-related stuff. But for my personal passwords, I use Keychain, because I prefer the security feature set that Apple has.
But it’s all personal preference. But certainly it can be confusing when your Google Chrome is popping up and trying to save password because by default that’s what they want you to use their product. So they would have a way to trick you, but to put it in front of you. And it’s easy. A lot of people, believe it or not, used the password manager provided by Google, because it was seamless. But there are important things that you need to do to secure access to that.
So making sure, for instance, multi-factor authentication or Google call it two-step verification is enabled on your Google account. Whether you’re using it as your personal manager, nonprofit or business nonprofit password manager, your nonprofit organization needs to understand the importance of having another layer of protection. And one of the foundational layers is two-step verification, where you receive a code either through your phone, through an authenticator app or Google authenticator app, and you enter it as another information that needs to be entered to login to or to access your Google workspace.
Carolyn Woodard: That was going to be one of my next questions actually was about devices. So are there challenges for someone who uses Windows at work, but maybe uses their iPhone to authenticate that multi-factor authentication or people who use an iPad to work, or organizations that meet some nonprofits give iPads to their volunteers or to their clients. They have to use iPads to access the services or to check in or for teaching educational uses.
So does that complicate things?
Nura Aboki: So generally, having other mobile devices, so once you’ve mentioned the iPad, the iPhone adds to the complexity, but there are tools like a mobile device management tool that an organization should consider, because that tool allows you to enforce policies or security policies to access towards using those devices.
An end user, for instance, if you have a mobile device management tool that enforces a rule on an iPhone, it would then restrict the user from installing just any application. There will be a set of work applications that you will deploy.
Business applications can be pushed and installed on the iPhone, and those business applications will be specifically used for work-related stuff. Similarly, the iPad can be locked down, such that the volunteers do not inadvertently install Apple apps that are unrelated to the mission of your organization.
So mobile device management tools are available, and there are a number of them that are being offered. Some come integrated with your device management solution. Some of them are third-party solutions that one could consider getting. I know one offer that Apple has is a business manager, and Apple business manager is a way for non-profit organizations to, or any business that wants to enroll, to have their devices managed centrally.
But then that Apple business manager needs to be paired with an MDM solutions, for example if you have an Office 365 environment, you could use Intune. If you have a third-party tool, you could also integrate that third-party tool to allow you to manage the security of those devices.
Carolyn Woodard: So it sounds like you’re saying if your organization uses these devices, uses iPads or mobile phones of any kind, you need to have a policy regulating that, and then you would need to have these management tools in place. And if you were a Windows environment, but you wanted staff or volunteers to have iPads, that that is doable, you just need to be intentional about it.
Nura Aboki: Correct. That’s absolutely correct. We need to be intentional about it because there are risks. And those challenges could lead to some damage to your reputation and so on. So we prefer organizations to re-think how to use the iPad, how to issue it, and just use it in its limited functionality for serving your mission securely.
Carolyn Woodard: That makes sense.
I have, I guess it’s an existential question. Is it easier to support an organization that is all Macs or all Windows?
Or does it make no difference if you’re supporting one person on a Mac, you could support 20 people on a Mac, you could have 50-50, half on Macs, half on Windows. Is there any kind of scalability of support?
Nura Aboki: That’s a very important question. So all-Mac organizations, and the other part of your question is a mixed environment where you have some Macs and Windows.
For an all-Mac organization, supporting them allows for consistency. It’s easier to manage due to uniformity in the operating system. So across the board, you know they are all Mac operating system. So in terms of simplified updates, if you want to streamline your software updates and patches, you can do that.
If you need just specialized support, your staff are just going to be trained on and focused on the Mac operating specific issues, Mac operating system for specific issues and solutions. Then training users is going to be just Mac related training. So seems like an all Mac organization certainly has a simplified way to support it.
And mixed environment on the other end requires some diverse expertise. You know, it requires staff that can support both Mac operating system and Windows. They need to be proficient in both operating systems.
And then you can run into some potential compatibility challenges with software and integration. So, having a mixed environment is… We aren’t saying we don’t like that. This is where we can’t do without it, because the applications that allow for staff productivity are mostly cloud-based. So for those applications, because all you need is a browser, having either Windows or Mac doesn’t hinder you from using the application, because you need to open a browser and get your work done.
However, the device needs to be managed and protected securely.
So there could be complexity in management because you have a mixed environment, so there will be more investment in documentation, management, troubleshooting processes, because now you’re dealing with Windows and Macs. It’s not double the effort, but it requires a lot more.
But one thing that we know it offers is the flexibility to users. Users are happy if you give them options to pick one over the other. So it makes them very much allows for that.
Carolyn Woodard: I guess that was the second part of my question was, once you have one Mac user, you’re going to want to be able to support them. If you’re having a conscientious modern office, you’re now going to want to be just left out, both for your security and for their work, to be able to work with the rest of your teams. So then once you have one Mac user and you’re supporting them, you should be able to support more.
Nura Aboki: Yes, correct. Once you’re able to build a model of supporting one, then the foundational framework that will apply to multiple. As you scale up, if you’re finding the ratio is higher, then you need to get more experts in that, invest more in the resources that will support the increase in your Mac adoption.
So yes, I do agree that please don’t leave your Macs behind.
Carolyn Woodard: And that’s a question I hadn’t really thought of was, when you are looking for IT support staff, is it hard to find people who can do both or who can support Macs? Is it a smaller pool of applicants?
Nura Aboki: So I would say in the past, it used to be a smaller pool, but now the adoption of cloud has really forced, I would say compelled, potential IT vendors to invest in resources that would show they have the skill set expertise to support the environment. Because the business is coming from environments that have mixed laptops. Employees have demanded, “look, I am more productive using a Mac. So if you want me to add value to your organization, give me a Mac and you will see a difference.” Businesses are saying, “hey, if a Mac is what they need, is it going to help the bottom line? Then certainly we will give them a Mac.”
So IT support providers have to adjust and be resilient as well, to make sure they have the skill set necessary to support a diverse set of environments. So mixed environments are popular ones we are seeing these days.
Finding IT staff that actually have the years of experience is what you may struggle to find. You find that, “hey, we just started supporting Macs.”
And also, I want to add there has been an advancement of the technological tools to support Macs. Now more are available to IT vendors. In the past, it would be a niche group, and it was cost prohibitive. So even if I wanted to support Macs, I would be reluctant to do, because I’m looking at what is the return on investment. If I invest so much, but I’m getting little, then there’s little incentive for me to push forward.
But more readily available and more affordable tools are becoming available to support Macs. I believe you may more easily find IT vendors that have skill set to support both environments.
Carolyn Woodard: I suppose that speaks a little bit to my question of just a minute ago, if you have one, you might as well get more because you are paying to have someone with expertise on your staff and they’re only supporting one person, it might make sense for them to be able to support more people. Or like you said, to provide that choice for staff members who want to use Macs, and for hiring as well – if you’re going to hire someone who is really comfortable with Macs, then you can provide that IT support.
All right, I have a couple of closing questions.
We’re going to do a little bit of a lightning round. So I’m going to ask you a few questions and I want to hear your first thoughts on each of these questions.
Nura Aboki: Compatibility and integration. You need to ensure that the Macs can seamlessly integrate with existing system and software. Yes.
Carolyn Woodard: Okay.
Nura Aboki: You need to stay updated. So regular updates on macOS to maintain security and performance. Macs are still vulnerable. So when you see that alert to patch, please install the patch.
Carolyn Woodard: Okay. And this one might be more of a kind of a blue sky question, but
Nura Aboki: Enterprise or businesses, enhanced business support. Apple traditionally have been invested in consumer support products. So improving the enterprise support by offering more robust tools tailored for IT departments is something I want to see.
Unlike Windows, we know Windows is heavy in the enterprise, and they have so many tools, but Apple isn’t like that, so that’s a wish list for me.
Carolyn Woodard: Okay, last question.
Nura Aboki: Well, evaluation, you want to be thorough. So, first thing you want to find out, experience and expertise.
What experience does the MSP have in supporting Macs and Apple hardware?
Do they have any certified professionals or specialists in their team, specific to Apple technology?
If they have clients, you want to have an idea of, in their client, or total number of clients that they have, what percentage actually are Macs and what percentage is a mixed environment? Because that may give you an idea, okay?
Even though we have the specialists, but they’re supporting one client that has one Mac, compared to others that have a broad number of Macs. So yeah, you want to find out client references.
Then the scope of support. Honestly, you want to have a good understanding of what are they able to support on a Mac.
Do they have a help desk that can support cross-platforms, Windows, Google services, as you mentioned earlier, Google Workspace, Macs.
So you talk about your environment and your needs, and make sure that it’s within the scope of their capability.
How are they also managing updates and security? That is important. If you have a centralized way to manage updates, it’s easier, but patches where it’s consistent is happening regularly.
With every IT provider, response times, service level agreements, there are things you want to ask them about.
And then if you have a need, you may want them to tell you what tools specifically are they using for mobile device management. For instance, we talk about iPhones, iPads, like do they have a solution that would integrate those?
Or are they going to be outliers and they have to look for a third party solution? So that’s some questions to ask.
Carolyn: Thank you. Thank you for answering all my questions today. I’m going to just, I took a few notes while we were talking. I just want to summarize.
We talked about if you have someone on your staff who’s using a Mac, don’t forget about your Mac users. Make sure that you’re supporting their devices and that you are managing them intentionally, and that you’re supporting those staff. Even if you only have one on your staff, you don’t want them to be the outsider. Make sure that they’re integrated.
For IT support, you need to have at least one person. If you’re going to hire someone on staff and they’re going to be using a Mac, you need to have at least one person on your IT team that can support someone using a Mac. So don’t leave them out in the cold.
Then I think you said a couple of times that because everything is cloud-based nowadays, that the Macs are going to work with the browsers, but you need to be sure that you’re managing the security and managing those devices and being intentional about that.
Does that sound like a good summary?
Nura Aboki: It’s an excellent summary. Wow. Thank you.
Carolyn Woodard: Nura, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your expertise on this for all of our listeners out there who have, either they are the lonely Mac user at their organization, or they are an IT manager trying to make sure they do the best job that they can supporting those Mac users. Thank you.
Nura Aboki: Thank you for having me.
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